There are no Temple ordinances specifically talked about in the Book of Mormon but Valiant Jones has discovered that the entire book is a guidebook for the covenants we make in the temple. He believes that Joseph Smith was prepared to receive the covenants for the temple by translating the Book of Mormon. Find out more about how to find the temple in the Book of Mormon!
There are no Temple ordinances specifically talked about in the Book of Mormon but Valiant Jones has discovered that the entire book is a guidebook for the covenants we make in the temple. He believes that Joseph Smith was prepared to receive the covenants for the temple by translating the Book of Mormon. Find out more about how to find the temple in the Book of Mormon!
welcome to Cedar Fort Publishing and
Media behind-the-scenes. I'm Valerie
Loveless and I will be your host today,
and with me I have Valiant K Jones. he is
the author of the Covenant path finding
the temple in the Book of Mormon
welcome Valiant thank you it's good to
be here and you go by Val so that's what
we'll be calling you for the rest of the
podcast
okay I do not go by Val so don't call me
that
all right good confused that way good so
welcome thank you thank you it's good to
be here yes so let's talk about your
book I mean that's why you're here your
book it's already out so in some places
it's I think everybody can get it
probably on
have you checked cedar for comment sir
yeah I don't I know Amazon doesn't have
it yet today it goes out in the area
bookstores good in desert books today
good so what's the official launch day
then we'll have it by the time this airs
maybe so
yeah hopefully they will they should
unless it's unless it's sold out already
unless they've they've gotten too many
pre-orders or something Amazon should
have it by the time this airs so tell me
about the premise of your book the
Covenant path finding the temple in the
Book of Mormon the the idea for the book
began in 1996 we were studying the Book
of Mormon we'd been doing it every four
years for a long time now I think since
since Spencer W Kimball and that year in
the gospel doctrine class that I
attended in Midland Michigan a friend
taught the class and he's just a great
gospel scholar and he just kind of been
passing right in the first or second
week said said something that I point
out in the preface of the book he said
something like this Nephi was a great
example of obedience
and he and his family made great
personal sacrifices as they traveled
through the wilderness and across oceans
to reach their new promised land Lehi
taught his family the gospel and Jacob
taught the importance of chastity and
this brother this gospel doctrine
teacher continued I also expect that
when they arrived in the promised land
they probably had a special prayer and
consecrated themselves to God so this
this caught my attention you know yeah
he was he was speaking a pattern that I
recognized it was obedience sacrifice
the gospel chastity and consecration and
and he didn't make a big point of that
and didn't draw any connection to the
temple he just said that but several s
of us in the room drew a connection to
the covenants of the temple and some of
his points were conjecture you know to
say they maybe had a prayer of
dedicating themselves or consecrating
themselves and and and it wasn't real
firm but some were so obviously there is
like we all know that that Nephi and
obedience it was it was his theme of his
life you know I will go I will do and
and I'd never really thought about how
much sacrifice their family had to go
through but it was obviously their
Jacobs sermon on chastity is that the
strongest sermon on chastity in all of
Scripture his point that Lehi taught the
gospel intrigue me and chaste and and
and no consecration where is that so I
started thinking about it and started
studying it and just kind of mulling it
over in my mind and and as I read my
scriptures I think about it and as I
went to the temple I would think about
it and things just started falling into
place to where I started to see that
there was actually a very strong pattern
in the early part of the Book of Mormon
primarily this
all plates of Nephi but extending even a
little bit farther into King Benjamin's
sermon which I really point out is about
consecration Minh other-- thing that
came into play was on my mission
this was 1976 preparing for my mission I
had heard the phrase the law of the
gospel and it cost me to wonder what is
meant by the term the gospel I was in
Argentina and there weren't a lot of
resources books around but I did it just
a scripture study on what is the gospel
and I found lots of verses that define
the gospel and they define it as it's
focused on the atonement of Jesus Christ
particularly his his crucifixion and
resurrection and and the atonement and
how he will decide that many people are
are saved at the day of judgment so it
focuses on Christ but then it also
teaches the what we call the first
principles of the gospel faith
repentance baptism holy the ghost and
enduring to the end so I had that
background of understanding what the
gospel is so that came into play and so
I look at the small place of Nephi and I
see that in first Nephi we've got
Nephi's focus on obedience the families
struggle and their sacrifices so I say
Oh first Nephi is all about obedience
and sacrifice and I look at 2nd Nephi
and the entire book can be claimed to
follow the theme of the gospel
it starts with chapters 2 and 9 that are
the that greatest dissertations in all
of scripture on the atonement of Jesus
Christ his his resurrection what he does
for us in the Day of Judgment and then
at the end of the book
we get Nephi's dissertation on the
doctrine of Christ which is an
equivalent term for the gospel and he
teaches about faith repentance baptism
the Holy Ghost and enduring to the end
and in the middle chapters including the
Isaiah chapters we get again more focus
on Christ what we get chapter 25 where
Nephi writes we talk of Christ we preach
of Christ and we get the witnesses of
Isaiah and we get a lot about apostasy
and restoration which are parts of the
gospel so I begin to see this pattern
and so I analyzed each book through what
I call a sub theme and the sub theme
then of second Nephi is the gospel then
Jacob as I said has the most powerful
sermon on on chastity in all of
Scripture but I analyzed his entire book
through the lens of family and and
chested the law of chastity and I I find
even that the the allegory that he has
in the in that we sometimes get bogged
down in the allegory of zenith at the
end there's a lot about nourishing and
and there's a lot we can relate to
families there when when we need to
nourish and we need to nourish the the
good vines and and and and sometimes
discard the the the wild vines of our
nature and also nourish our families let
me say at this point before I talk about
the other books I searched for
consecration I'm like consecrations
gotta be here someplace you know it's
just gotta be everything else is here
and and those that know the pattern of
the the covenants of the temple which
I'll speak of a little
more later and and how elder Bednar has
given us permission to talk about those
know that the final one then is
consecration and I found then at the end
of the book of Omni that the final
writer a Malachi says come unto Christ
and offer your whole souls as an
offering unto Him and I'm like wow is
there any better description of
consecration to that but also I thought
about King Benjamin who talked so much
about service about losing yourself to
the Lord about you can't give enough to
the Lord we're unprofitable servants we
can't do enough and I discovered quotes
from elder Maxwell who just said that
King Benjamin is such a tremendous
example of consecration and that his
whole sermon is about consecration and
so there it was I found consecration so
then I'm saying okay but there's a
couple more books in there there's eNOS
and jerem and I remember the day
standing in a prayer circle in the
temple and it just dawned on me that
there's so much correlation between eNOS
prayer and what I was experiencing at
that moment and we prayer circles are
openly acknowledged in the church that
they exist we have prayer roles we can
there's websites that give phone numbers
to put people's names on prayer roles
and I decided to analyze eNOS not just
through normal prayer but through
prayers and temples and then jerem where
does jerem fit in well jeremy introduces
his book using speaking of family like
everybody else does with their book but
then he used the word genealogy he says
that his father told him to write this
book so that their genealogy
could be kept and it struck me
jerem is a witness that we need to be
doing family history research when we do
we sometimes search out people that we
have very little written about and jerem
as well as the early the first few
writers of the book of omne some of them
only wrote a verse they have very little
to go on but they left a little bit of a
record telling us that they exist so I
analyzed the Book of Jeremiah first few
writers of the book of Omni through the
lens of family history research each of
these early books in in the Book of
Mormon are meant to be handbooks and to
understand the temple and our covenants
that we make in the temple now we know
that the main purpose purposes of the
Book of Mormon they're stated in in the
title page it's to come into Christ and
to to remember our covenants and to know
our covenants well those are the main
purposes I propose that there are sub
those are the main themes and the main
purpose of the book but there are sub
themes that support that if we if we are
going to know our our covenants then
would it make sense that God would put
within this book specific instruction on
those specific covenants that we are to
me let's talk about analyzing things you
say analyzing it through the lens and
you're finding these overarching
principles in each of these books so how
does that work can you take me through
your process a little bit and explain
how you do that and how other people can
do that how we can kind of look at the
scriptures differently maybe take a
bigger picture I am NOT a seminary
teacher an Institute teacher I you know
we all have different callings in the
church and I've taught classes and and
studied the gospel like we all do
but I grew up loving math and science
and loving the logical approach of it
and in my career which I stayed in the
technical side of my career and I had to
a chemical engineer takes what the
chemist does on his lab bench with
beakers and flasks and translates it to
a very large industrial process so I
would sit down with chemists who figured
out a process of how to make a new
chemical and I make lots of notes as
they explained all of the steps they go
through and I'd have to lay that out
step by step break it down into
incremental steps because a computer is
going to control this process on an
industrial level in a 10,000 gallon
reactor and you can't just pick up your
beaker and stick it in an ice bath what
it needs cooled and you have to you have
to consider all of the different side
reactions that could go on and the
thermodynamic ramifications of runaway
reactions and so you had to break
everything down into minut steps and you
had to consider all of of the side
things that could go on you had to I had
to program all kinds of different alarm
situations for every reaction and then I
would program these or lay out someone
else usually do the program but I had to
design the programming for how computers
would would control these reactions on
in
Industrial skill so I was used to taking
something and breaking it apart into
substance and trying to figure out how
things interacted and so that's how I
approached the small plates of Nephi so
first of all I went through it many
times like I said this began in 1996 and
I started writing some things in the
early 2000s but I got so busy with my
career and raising family and church
callings took a copy of the Book of
Mormon and at noon at work I'd go to our
work fitness center and I'd be on a
treadmill or on a bike and I I took a a
paperback copy of the Book of Mormon
tore the cover off tore out pages this
is before cellphones
this is the early 2000s took pages with
me and set them in front of me you know
a a a chapter or two and set them in
front of me as I exercised and another
sheet of paper and it's kind of hard to
make notes while I'm pedaling a bike but
I did it and excellent multitasking yeah
and I just would just calm as I as I'd
write and and it just start coming on by
seeing the Book of Mormon through this
lens and reading first Nephi as once
you've got to say about obedience and
sacrifice just I'm just focused on
obedience and sacrifice and picking out
the bits and pieces about that and then
second Nephi once it got to say about
the gospel and I make these notes and
they all ended up in a folder - and then
when I retired a few years ago these
folders finally came out and I shifted
from a full-time job as a chemical
engineer to a full-time job is taking
all these years of notes and some
scrawling x' that i could hardly read
because they were written while i was on
a
exercise exercise like and trying to
make some sense of those but you know in
the meantime I've had new insights and
new thoughts and at first I just I just
got a write pot of god and then try to
put it back together and redo it and I
in the act on the exercise bike I hadn't
gotten past second Nephi I may be a
little bit into into Jacob but I still
had a lot more to analyze and I just
went through it all over again and would
read each chapter and make notes on how
how it applied to this sub-theme each
book and insights would come and more
insights came while I was writing then
while I was reading and making notes I
it was amazing I have such respect for
writers now I think that's a great
example of anybody who's out there
listening who wants to be a writer but
you feel like you can't write a gospel
base book because you're not a BYU
professor you know you don't have to be
a B wipe you professor I mean the way
I've talked to quite a few of them I'm
related to some of them and I mean the
way they get to where they're at is by
diligent study and and constant you know
just review of these things and deep
thought and pondering and any of us can
do that we don't have to be that is
exactly right
we are all we're all just people yeah we
are we are all gifted with with an
intellect and with pondering boy the
pondering
I think the twenty some years of
pondering really played into the final
product too if I I thought I wanted to
write an article to submit to the ensign
in the early 2000 that's what I was
working on and they're just there just
wasn't the time and and and I plus the
more I got into it it's like no this
isn't an art
this is a book and but the continued
pondering and I I loved going to the
temple because it gave me an extra way
to look at the endowment and so I would
think about these things there and it
and and sometimes I get so excited with
a new insight I could hardly wait to get
to the celestial room and share with my
wife a new thought that came because I
was while I was at home reading the Book
of Mormon I was reading The Book of
Mormon through the lens of the temple
and when I was at the temple I was
viewing the temple ceremony through the
lens of what I was reading in the Book
of Mormon and I think that that time is
important sometimes how do you write
about the sacredness of the temple with
and keep the respect of the ordinances
and the things that we've been asked you
know to keep yeah sacred yes and I was
worried about that all along and I was
like you know I wouldn't tell many
people about what I was thinking about I
mostly just shared with my wife and and
when I told people when I was retiring I
told him I'm gonna do a book that
analyzes the small plates of Nephi and I
just left it at that because I wasn't
sure myself how how much I should draw
correlation but the more I got into the
research the more I found all these
quotes from prophets and other leaders
were they they list the the covenant
topics of the temple and as I point out
in the introduction to my book it's kind
of like what the Lord says in Doctrine
and Covenants
that we know that the name of the
Melchizedek Priesthood wasn't always
called that it was called the holy
priesthood after the order of the son of
God but out of respect and to not
overuse that those terms
the Lord said let's call the Melchizedek
Priesthood after the name of this Great
King Melchizedek but that doesn't mean
that we don't know the ER
name we just don't use it every day
mm-hmm and that's why I what I point out
is the truth with the covenants of the
temple there's there have been many
prophets that have pointed out what they
are but we don't see it very often
because we respect it and and so that's
the approach I took and also the other
approaches I'm not going to talk about
the temple I'm going to talk about the
principles behind the covenants and
those how many talks are there on
obedience on sacrifice on the gospel on
chastity on consecration you can go do a
search and find all kinds of conference
talks on every one of those and so I
became more and more comfortable laying
it out just talking about those
principles and and last March about
mid-march I felt pretty good with my
manuscript and I was ready to send it to
publishers but I thought you know
conference is two weeks away I'm gonna
wait because there there could be
another good quote that I just want to
throw in there and then elder Bednar
says and I'm gonna read it from the back
cover of my book he said we may discuss
the doctrine and principles associated
with temple ordinances and covenants and
then he laid out what they are the law
of obedience the law of sacrifice the
law of the gospel the law of chastity
and the law of consecration well like
many of you I was watching a conference
in my own home and I just blurted out I
can't believe it I jumped out of my
chair that's what my book is about and
and so I I swapped out a quoted them in
the introductory chapter by President
Hinckley and put it in my appendix of
all these quotes I have on the topic and
put elder Bednar right right up front
where he said this and it
just struck me the timing and I I think
that the Lord is opening up many people
to this approach now is the time as we
prepare for his second coming now is the
time to speak a little more openly not
about the ceremony per se but about
these covenants and and the this
covenant path and that that President
Nelson is emphasizing so much so I I
think there are many people and we're
gonna see more and more books that are
gonna talk about this and I'm grateful
to be one and to have mine right right
ready to go when he gave us permission
to to talk more openly but I I don't
really talk about the ceremonies of the
temple very much very little very little
but these these topic principles so so
with that background
you asked about about the experiences
one of them I mentioned I think just
standing in a prayer circle and
realizing eNOS went to the woods to pray
and how many temples are we surrounded
by a scene of a wooded Garden of Eden
and beautiful type scenery and eNOS had
a very structured prayer where he prayed
first for his family and fellow Nephites
second for for the the Lamanites and
then for the future descendants of Lehi
it was a very structured prayer we could
call it he gave us an ordered of prayer
an order of Prayer and president Nelson
has used the term an order of Prayer
saying that it is a prayer that is given
under the influence of the Holy Ghost
and
and when the Holy Ghost can guide you in
what to pray for I I realized that eNOS
was being guided in what he was praying
for because the things he prayed for are
exactly the things that that Nephi and
Lehi and his father Jacob had prayed for
that that the that even if the Nephites
lost the truth that the Lamanites would
save it forever and we who know the end
of the book know that eNOS the yeah that
eNOS is prayer was an inspired prayer he
was guided by the Holy Ghost in what to
pray for and I realized that I was in
that temple receiving a similar
experience in in in that prayer that was
one choice thing there there are other
choice choice experiences one just not
so much related to the the ceremony but
just my own sacred experience with with
the ancestors and grandfather beyond the
veil that just as a witness to me that
sacred things happen in sacred places
and I tell about that when talking about
how Nephi went to the Mount to seek
guidance from God and our Mount is the
mount of the temple and so I tell about
a choice experience of going to the
temple and and being blessed just just
have my deceased grandfather with me and
and having a conversation in in my mind
through the spirit and receiving
instruction from him in my own life so
some of that initially I didn't I wasn't
going to have person
experiences but my elder sister who read
an early draft of it said Val you gotta
put stories in there and she point now
you need a story here you need a story
here you need a story here and so I and
I I wasn't even I was only about halfway
through the first draft and and I kind
of shifted to start putting the stories
in and added stories at the beginning
and try to make it more personal along
with the doctrinal because I otherwise
would tend to be a little more doctrinal
it seems to me like kind of something
you've stumbled upon is I mean it in the
Book of Mormon it doesn't really mention
a lot of specific ordinances or things
that we do in the temple probably for a
good reason
right well all of that came through
revelation to Joseph Smith but the way
you're putting it is that having
translated the Book of Mormon set him up
with like this base level of knowledge
to better receive those revelations of
the temple don't you think that's
exactly right that's that's so true in
fact I point out that when when Moroni
visited Joseph Smith September 21st 1823
he had four visits that night in the
next morning he he recited the third and
fourth chapters of Malachi which and
with the famous prophecy of the coming
of Elijah that we associate with temple
work ad that four times when and and
this is the first that Joseph Smith is
hearing at all about this sacred record
and along with telling about the sacred
record he's telling about the coming of
of Elijah in the and and quoting from
Milligan and they are connected yet The
Book of Mormon had to come forth because
yeah
lays out the foundational principles
upon which the covenants of the temple
would be established and the fascinating
thing is finding this pattern in the
sacred small plates of Nephi two hundred
years after I didn't it's not found now
but having it published two hundred
years after the first vision a hundred
and ninety years after the Book of
Mormon is published Joseph Smith didn't
point out that
oh I cleverly stuck in the beginning
here in the same order even these same
principles that I also installed in the
endowment is because it wasn't Joseph's
work it's God's work and the reason I
believe that it isn't coming out until
now is it's part of the Lord's plan in
the ongoing restoration as we prepare
for the second coming of the Lord
sometimes we see the restoration as one
event and the second coming of Jesus
Christ as a second event if you look at
how Isaiah saw it as you read the Isaiah
chapters a second Nephi he saw them as
one period and from his perspective
6,000 years earlier you can see that he
would because it was so far off but also
they are one period because there is no
apostasy between Joseph Smith and the
second coming of Jesus Christ when you
see that the events of the restoration
the 1,800 events of the restoration
because the events are going on now but
when you see that those early 1800
events were preparing for the second
coming of Jesus Christ
the restoration becomes a
christ-centered
event not a Joseph Smith centered event
the gospel is restored this last time to
prepare for the earth to receive Jesus
Christ and that is why the Gospels
resort and as we get closer things are
speeding up and more things are coming
out and the temple is even more
accessible not until we have temples
across the globe do we get more
revelation on what the temple is and how
the temple relates to to the scriptures
I I say early I tell a story early in in
the first chapter my wife and I watched
a movie once that had a scene of a in a
Jewish synagogue and this this rabbi
walks in from the back of the hall with
the Torah and he's holding it up as he's
walking through and there's people are
reaching out from that from the balcony
above and from the aisles and wanting to
touch the Torah and there's all this
drama and then he gets right up to the
front of the hall of this synagogue he
lifts his scriptures high above his head
and then he lays them on an altar and I
go oh I know the roots of that Jewish
practice of raising the scriptures and
laying them on the altar and there is a
connection between the scriptures and
the temple and we have not yet fully
tapped in to that and I hope that this
book that has come out I I hesitate to
say my back but because it's not my book
it's Lourdes
witness of his book of the Book of
Mormon this
I hope this opens other people to search
for temple connections through all of
scriptures because it's there it's there
the two the two are linked do you think
that it is worthwhile for someone who's
going through the temple for the first
time to read this first or after why I
don't know I you know I I've written the
people who've been to the temple you
know for 40 years like I have will well
this will just add on to what
understanding they already have but I
think it so I had i beliee thought it
was for mature temple goers but as I
have shared this concept with so many
others I'm shifting I have given a
couple of fire sites in my stake on this
and I had a sister say who was at one
fireside that I now want to go back to
the temple she found the temple very
difficult to understand and she she's
actually was closer to my age but she
had only initially gone to the temple
and had not been repeated and it was a
two hour drive for us but after hearing
my presentation she's like oh I think I
think I see what it's about and she
wanted to go back to the temple more and
so now that shifted my thinking oh this
might help this might remove some of the
mystery of it and to teach if if we can
focus on the covenants of the temple and
then see how some of the other symbols
might play into those I think we'll get
more and I think those who are going for
the first time might might actually gain
a lot by reading this because this is
from the scripture and then going to the
temple they might say oh oh okay I see I
see I see what they're trying to teach
me here in the temple so initially I
thought I was writing a book for the
mature temple goer but I'm now seeing
it's for everyone how can we use this
this year in conjunction with the come
follow me manuals
well this applies especially for the
early part of the Book of Mormon first
Nephi through King Benjamin's sermon you
will find so much in in those areas and
I I only regret that we're already just
starting in the second Nephi in come
follow me but readers will enjoy
backtracking a little bit into first
Nephi but hop right into second Nephi
today and read my chapter on that and
you will gain I think some wonderful
insights on how the gospel is taught so
thoroughly in 2nd Nephi you'll see how
the Isaiah chapters fit in in a way that
anybody can understand you don't have to
be a gospel stall scholar to to get to
glean from the Isaiah chapters the
points that I think the Lord's want
wants us to get from the Isaiah chapters
that they witness of Christ in that they
witness of apostasy and revelation are
restorations apostasy zand restorations
and how those fit into the gospel when
you get into the end of 2nd Nephi and
you get into the doctrine of Christ
you'll I think you'll love the insights
there and just continuing through Jacob
eNOS jerem Omni and King Benjamin's
sermon I just increase
readers to read the chapters from the
Covenant path alongside those scriptures
and I think you'll see great insights so
you're not one of our Utah Mormons
you're from a different state where did
you fly into are you from yeah yeah yeah
I got here yesterday from Michigan from
Michigan yeah it's even colder and
snowier they're like balmy weather for
you right now and the ski ski slopes we
have but the skiing isn't quite as good
but but it's a whole lot cheaper nothing
quite like the Rocky Mountains I'm from
Southern California and so we had
equivalent mountains there but pretty
much anywhere else in the country you're
not going to get the mountains like like
we've got them here in Utah that's for
sure are you married you what tell me
about your family yes yes so I I was
born in in Murray Utah cottonwood
Maternity Hospital like 80% of the
Mormons born in the 50s and 60s but in
the early 60s my dad moved us to Indiana
he had served as his mission in the
Great Lakes states in Michigan and
Illinois and he said he wanted to raise
us in the mission field but Marius in
the West so we lived out there 13 years
and started getting the oldest ones
marrying ages while they were on their
missions we moved to to Idaho to
Meridian Idaho so my my growing up years
school years were in Indiana then Idaho
went to BYU where I met and married my
wife Lori ransom from Pocatello Idaho
and we got married just just before we
left to Michigan where I obtained
employment and
so our entire married life was there had
a career there in the chemical industry
and raised five children there and trips
occasionally back to visit with family
and and get kids to school and now have
eight grandchildren as well and I was
comfortable moving to the Midwest
because I'd grown up in the Midwest and
and we loved it there and we love being
latter-day saints in a community that's
not predominantly latter-day Saint where
you have opportunities to share the
gospel but yet we do have a good strong
basis of strong members of the church
and yet plenty of work to be done to
build the kingdom and strengthen the
church out there yeah it's it's
different having had grown up outside of
the state myself as well it is different
being latter-day saint outside of Utah
first of all there's more of an
opportunity to choose for yourself how
you want to live the gospel and and to
what degree you want to follow the
gospel because if you just want to fall
away from the church there's really
nobody to you know jump on you and bug
you about it and yes you know nobody
would would know otherwise really if you
just moved away and yes and stopped
going to church so the I feel like the
Saints that do live outside of Utah have
a dedication to the gospel I'm not
saying that Utah Saints don't but I'm
saying that definitely the ones outside
of the state have a dedication to the
gospel that transcends cultural
influences of the church don't you think
the gospel is so the church is so global
and the gospel is the same gospel where
wherever you are but they the culture is
is a little different i live we're
serving in a branch a little remote
branch of our steak right now and you
know somebody might show up coming
straight from there they're hunting
blind in camo and show up to church with
their guns locked in their car and we
welcome them with open arms and and yeah
those some people that might look a
little bit rough around the edges
we we love them and we're glad to have
and we'll put them right to work well we
don't have some of the cultural biases
that exist when everybody tries to toe
the line in one direction here so so
yeah they're it's a little unique and
and and our kids grew up where you have
some people that are very focused on
their own view of Christianity and who
didn't want anything to do with Mormons
but many others that totally respected
my children for what they were and who
they were but they had to have their own
testimonies amongst that that area where
there is a lot of strong Bible believing
people but a lot of anti Mormon
I think that terms still allowed in time
orman so they had to have their own
their own testimonies as well so it was
good there's a pros and cons everywhere
don't we we loved it and it was it was
the right thing for our family and and
it's still the right thing for my wife
and I to remain there yeah yeah I think
I
do like to pick on my born and raised
Utah friends a little bit it's just a
little bit but I do love Utah so much
I've lived in Utah one year more than I
lived in California now so I'm a Utah
now and I love it here I love I love the
culture but I like to point it out
sometimes just for fun to people who
were born here because sometimes they
don't notice it you know how why would
you if you were born and raised here you
may not notice this culture surrounding
you but I think it's cute I think Utah
cultures just adorable
so yes I wouldn't be raising my kids
here if myself you know what I'll add to
that there were there's this kind of
same dialogue of you know those Utah
Mormons and they're just not as strong
as we out here in the mission field so
to speak and and I I had to point out to
people have you noticed that the
strongest members of our Wharton State
came from Utah those Utah Mormons out
here in Michigan we're glad to have them
so be careful what you say about those
Utah Mormons so and I don't think that's
true at all
I think that I have met just as many
faithful strong members here as I ever
knew growing up in my hometown yes I
think that everyone's going to make a
choice and like I said the difference is
is that if you live in California or
Michigan and you decide to walk away
from the church nobody notices but in
Utah people notice because it's
everywhere
and I think that's the big difference
but well we noticed there too
well you know you notice but the people
outside of the church don't know yeah
that's right yeah that you can easily
slip into a social group and be
comfortable in a social group ready to
receive you without any discussion of
your previous history but we were in the
church notice and are gonna send the
ministering brothers and sisters down
after you yeah yeah no promises that the
missionaries won't find you okay I heard
of that happening plenty of times that's
right
and people I had a friend who his
parents were from Utah and he knew this
he was aware of this but he lived in
Southern California his whole life and
then one day his parents just up and
moved them all back to Utah up to Ogden
and and then it was then that he found
out that his parents used to be members
of the church and he knew in California
he knew me and my friends that were
members of the church everybody knew who
we were because we were kind of the
weird ones who liked to be in show choir
and didn't go to the parties and you
know we stood out and so he started
going to church when he moved back up to
Utah and got baptized and then
immediately called me and my friends
back in California and said guess what
so and he still look remember he served
a mission and as far as I know I haven't
talked to him for a couple years but as
far as I know he still lives in Utah so
well I believe that sometimes our
ancestors are working on the other side
of the veil for their progenitors so
that if if somebody chooses to abandon
their covenants and leave the church
sometimes those deceased ancestors will
find a receptive person down the line to
pull in the family line back again and
I'm experiencing that with a sister in
my branch who whose parents had become
inactive and she was not raised in the
church but as a sister in her 60s
she is just
drinking from the fire hose just soaking
up everything about the gospel and just
loving it and serving diligently in our
branch Relief Society presidency and
it's it's um you know the hearts of the
children are being drawn to their
fathers and you just can't escape it
because of the promises that those
fathers made sometimes they'll skip over
someone because a free agency who chosen
chooses to to abandon those but they'll
bring in their descendants and bring
them back into line you are so right and
I actually know a story specifically
about that we have an author here and
her name is Jane MO and she died on the
operating table and had a near-death
experience and she met her at the time
boyfriend's father and he started
teaching her gospel principles on the
other side he never said anything about
your daughters yes well and then in
subsequent years she continued to have
dreams of his side of the family I think
what was happening was they wanted they
wanted them to do their temple work but
for many many years they didn't know
anything about the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter day Saints but they
were learning all these principles about
it about eternal families and and she
had even had some visions I believe
about Joseph Smith about or maybe it was
her husband somebody somebody did have a
vision about Joseph Smith who saw
passado submit anyway so her his family
they eventually got married so they're a
family now and they're still together
but it's just an excellent example of
what you were saying access you're
working so hard on the other side to get
us to find the gospel and find and find
the truth so
her book is called visions of heaven if
anybody would like to read that one it's
an amazing story I'll have to yes it's
really great well maybe I'll get you a
copy while you're here let's do that
let's see if they can grab one from the
back for you so valiant thank you so
much for coming in and talking with me
about your book I'm looking forward to
reading it throughout the rest of the
year and I usually have about 5 to 10
book industry and you get so many come
in yeah yeah I try to get people's books
read before they come in for interviews
and sometimes like yours I just can't
get it because you're just so recently
came out and I just wasn't prepared but
it was it was it was hurried as fast as
as cedar fort could do it yeah yeah well
I mean the the timing is really great
with the the come follow me being about
the Book of Mormon what better to
publish right now than a book about
finding the temple in the Book of Mormon
so excellent timing and you said that
Deseret Book was interested in it but
they wanted to they didn't have room for
it until like a year and a half from
them all right
that's right so I had to make a choice
and and cedar Forge
yeah yeah I asked desert book and they
said well uh unfortunately our schedules
full for 2020 and most of 2021 and and I
asked cedar for it and they said we
think we can have it out in January or
February and I'm like okay I'm in and I
just think I'm just really pleased with
the partnership that I formed with cedar
fort with with your staff with the
professional attention here and with the
agility of a smaller publishing company
that they're able to work so quickly
because I just I just think now's the
time for this and just from the time of
elder Bednar SQUOZE until now ten months
later
that's really pretty quick to go through
all of the reviews the
editing's the printing and everything
else and and get it out and so I'm I'm
grateful to work with cedar for it and I
hope we continue this partnership in the
future because I have some other ideas
for the future oh good
yeah I mean this is great timing if you
had to wait a year and a half we would
probably be into I don't know the Old
Testament maybe or whatever and it could
have just gotten lost in the piles of
books that people need to read that year
but it's so relevant for what we're
talking about this year in the church so
I'm really glad that we were able to get
it out as soon as possible and also you
know a cedar fort you don't have to we
don't answer to the church so we don't
have to wait for things to be reviewed
by is anything that does a red book go
ahead anything that does red book you
know publishes has to be reviewed and
represents the church so they're very
very careful well they are and and they
asked you to send beforehand to their
intellectual properties group for review
the manuscript and and anticipating I
might publish through them I actually
did that so this went through most of
those hoops as well and got their
approval and and but they then have
later hoops to go through as well which
they're receiving editor told me there's
still some other hoops to go through and
and whereas cedar fort is more just
going through the editorial staff who
who have a lot of experience and a lot
of wisdom and and know what's
appropriate and what's right and so it
worked it worked and we're glad it did
so thank you so much for coming in and
visiting with me too
thank you it's been a pleasure